The Rogues of Montgomery on WSFA, Rich Gainer on vocals The Rogues of Montgomery, AL cut one great rock single, “Put You Down” b/w a version of “Stormy Monday Blues”.
“Put You Down” was written by lead guitarist Max Kendrick and vocalist Rich Gainer. The Rogues recorded the 45 in February of 1966, for MBM Records, a Birmingham, Alabama label that goes back to the early ’60s.
For years this group was assumed to be the same as the Rogues and the Dry Grins of Lafayette, Louisiana, but I’ve heard from Rich Gainer through his daughter, Dorian, who sent in the photo above, showing the group playing live on WSFA TV in Montgomery.
Rich Gainer provides this history of the band:
The Rogues were founded in mid-1965 as a result of my being stationed at Maxwell USAF Base in Montgomery, Alabama, and meeting Bill Myers (rhythm guitar and vocals), Larry Taylor (Hofner bass), and Casey Bolt (drums), officers’ kids whose Dads had recently been reassigned there from Germany. These teens had been playing music in a band in Germany at the time the Beatles were popular and playing there, and had picked up on the style of British Invasion groups. From the time we first met and practiced together a little bit, we were getting bookings at area military and off-base clubs, and were playing gigs several times a week.
Early-on, we were introduced to Max Kendrick who would become our excellent lead guitar player, sporting his Fender Jazzmaster and Rickenbacker 12 string. Max’s Dad was the Colonel in charge of AU TV on base, and we were among the first groups to pioneer videos. Keyboards came later in the form of Max’s cousin Frank, for whom we purchased a Vox Continental organ. Through the time the Rogues were together 1965-1969, we also had the services of Joe Tucker at lead guitar and Dan Fucci who very quickly learned to play the drums in order to become our drummer.
Max and I wrote the song “Put You Down”, which we recorded for the MBM label in a Muscle Shoals, Alabama studio in 1966. Colonel Taylor, our bass player’s Dad, made the recording deal with the studio in Muscle Shoals (think it was FAME) which included the label deal with MBM. The song actually topped the charts on WBAM in Montgomery, AL for a few weeks which gave us introductions to the British Invasion groups coming through Montgomery for the Big BAM shows held at the Coliseum for many years, like The Who, The Hollies, The Blues Magoos, The Kinks, and many more including American groups like The Beach Boys, The Beau Brummels, The Turtles, and so on. Best bands we met and heard in person – The Byrds – magical and electric, and The Beach Boys – amazing sound.
We were scheduled to open for Paul Revere and the Raiders at the first WHHY Show at The Coliseum, but they wheeled out their Vox Super Beatle Amps and bulldozed our equipment off the stage some 10-12 foot drop.
We started playing teen clubs in rural Alabama, Georgia, and North Florida, and hired R. L. and Granny Davis, owners of The Opp Teen Club as booking agents for a couple of years. We were in that scene at the same time as The Rockin’ Gibraltars, The K-Otics, The James Gang, and The Candymen to name a few.
In 1968, when my Air Force time was up, the group split up. Larry and Dan became B52 pilots like their Dads, and Bill took over his Dad’s real estate business in Montgomery. Lost track of Casey and Max and the others, but would like to reconnect if it were possible. I went on to write more songs and record in Nashville for a few years with limited success through the 1990’s. Hank Tubb was my alias when I did comedy along with music. See https://www.reverbnation/hicksintrucks
Q. How many records pressed up? It’s very rare nowadays.
Probably a 1000 copies pressed. I used to have a few dozen but don’t know what happened to them over the years.
Q. Did the band play “Put You Down” at live shows?
Yes, played “Put You Down” everywhere, especially when it was on WBAM charts.
Q. Did the Rogues make any unreleased recordings?
We made lots of video recordings at AU TV, but on proprietary equipment and no longer available. No other audio recordings.
The Rogues recorded two singles on Regan Records circa 1968-1969. They seem to be from Michigan, and the “Capital City Music” publishing on the one original song they recorded may refer to Lansing.
Their first 45 has good versions of Bob Seger’s “Heavy Music” b/w” a cover of “Born in Chicago”, released on Regan R-0021 with IRM #1039.
The second single has an original song, “Something Called Humanity”, written by Bill Goik and Richard Jantz. Publishing by Capital City Music BMI, released on Regan R-0022, with IRM-1067. This was the flip to a version of “Summertime”.
If anyone has a scan or sound clip of “Something Called Humanity” please contact me.
Steve Donahue produced both singles, the second has a credit to Don Kemp for engineering. I can’t find their names in connection to any other releases, nor can I find any other releases on this Regan Records label.
Other members of the band included Rick Brunson – drums, and Dennis Parker – keyboards.
This copy of “Heavy Music” came from the collection of David Martin, with special thanks to his family.
The Rogues from Lafayette, Louisiana had two excellent 45s, both very rare now, I don’t own either one.
They seem to have had some lineup changes during their existence. Members included Fred Brechtel on lead vocals, Mark MacDiarmid (or McDiarmid) on lead guitar (and lead vocals on “I Don’t Need You”), Mike Schwartz on rhythm guitar, Tommy Withrow on keyboards, John Bonar on bass, and Glen Hebert on drums.
Cyril Vetter of the Greek Fountains saw the Rogues and produced a release for them on the Montel-Michelle label, though he changed the band’s name temporarily to the Dry Grins. The Dry Grins release has the teen loser lament, “She’s a Drag”, written by Fred Brechtel for Red Stick Music, backing the only slightly more commercial “You’re Through”. It was produced by Cyril Vetter & Sam Montel, and released as the Montel-Michelle M/M-959 (74 M/M 14) circa late 1965.
Well, I’m walking down the street with my left hand in my pocket, And some chick walks up and says, “Make a switch man, you’re on the wrong side of the street”
Well, I looked up and turned around to see the people watching, My left hand still in my pocket, And then she started to laugh. I had both hands in my pocket and I said, “Baby, you’re a drag”
Well, she’s a drag, yeah, a big ole drag, She’s a drag, yeah, a big ole drag, Like a trip, baby
Well, I used to dig a chick … [?] Cause I’m a stubborn fellow, you know, And I got to get her, [?] But that turned into a great big drag.
Well, she’s a drag, yeah, a big ol’ drag, She’s a drag, yeah, a big ol’ drag, Well, she’s a drag, Like an albatross
Well, she said get back, come back and don’t you cry, I turned around and said to her, “Baby, you’re a drag”
Well she’s a drag, yeah, a big ol’ drag, She’s a drag, yeah, a big ol’ drag, Well she’s a drag, She’s gone, baby
The Rogues second 45 has “Tonight” which Teen Beat Mayhem describes as “swamp-pop ballad with crooner vocals.” on the A-side. On the flip is “I Dont Need You”, one of their best songs, the opening drum roll leading into a blast of sound that keeps up throughout the song.
Both sides written and sung by Mark McDiarmid for La Lou Music, and released on the La Louisianne label, LL-8094-B, in April of ’67.
Andrew Brown wrote that Tommy Withrow joined a group called the Swingin’ Machine, obviously unrelated to the now-legendary Swinging Machine from South Norfolk, VA.
I used to believe the band had a third single, “Put You Down” b/w a version of “Stormy Monday Blues”, but that turns out to be a group from Alabama, which makes sense as MBM was a Birmingham label and “Put You Down” does not have keyboards unlike the other songs by the Rogues from Louisiana.
One of the most common band names of the ’60s was the Rogues. This particular group attended prep school at Mercersburg Academy, located southwest of Harrisburg, close to the Maryland state line.
I’d be interested in knowing how a band in Pennsylvania came to release their 45 on a label in Roanoke, Virginia, 240 miles away down Interstate 81. Maybe one of the band’s members came from that area.
The only name I can associate with the group is David Anthony, who wrote both songs here, the thumping put-down “Don’t Follow Me” and the sedate “Mr Sandman” on the flip. “Don’t Follow Me” lacks a guitar solo during the break, but the drummer provides excellent fills throughout the song.
Together with Jon and Lee & The Checkmates, Mandala spearheaded a vibrant R&B scene in Toronto during the mid-1960s. Helmed by the late Domenic Troiano, the band recorded a string of stunning singles and a noteworthy album before morphing in to the funk blues group, Bush in late 1969.
Although Mandala’s jazz-inspired soul-rock was too experimental for the mainstream rock market, interest in the band’s recorded output has been rekindled in recent years and a comprehensive CD detailing its entire work is long overdue.
Originally known as The Rogues, the group first came to prominence during the summer of 1964, working as the house band at the club Bluenote, supporting visiting US soul artists like The Supremes. Keyboard player Josef Chirowski (b. 2 March 1947, Germany), bass player Don Elliott (b. 8 December 1944, Toronto, Canada) and drummer Whitey Glan (b. Finland) had previously worked together in Whitey & The Roulettes (alongside future Luke & The Apostles guitarist Mike McKenna) and The Belltones.
During early 1965, former Belltones and original Roulettes singer George Olliver (b. 25 January 1946, Toronto, Canada) and ex-Robbie Lane & The Disciples and Ronnie Hawkins guitarist Domenic Troiano (b. Michaele Antonio, 17 January 1946, Mondugno, Italy, naturalised Canadian in 1955, d. 25 May 2005) completed the “classic” Mandala line up.
The Rogues, l-r: Don Elliot, Whitey Glan, Joey Davis, Don Troy (Troiano) and George Olliver, and (inset in lower right) David Clayton-Thomas
With Olliver and Troiano in place, The Rogues began playing extensively on the local scene, appearing regularly at clubs like the Devil’s Den, Club 888 and the Hawk’s Nest. For a brief period, the band took on a second lead singer – future Blood, Sweat & Tears front man David Clayton-Thomas but reverted to a five-piece in early 1966.
Following Clayton-Thomas’ departure, the band’s name was modified and, as The Five Rogues, they recorded two rare tracks – “I Can’t Hold Out No Longer” and “I’ll Make It Up To You” as rough demos.
Throughout 1966, the group consolidated its local standing by landing some important support slots, most notably opening for Wilson Pickett at the Gogue Inn on 25 May, and The McCoys at the North Toronto Memorial Arena on 9 August. In September 1966, however, the band decided to reinvent itself and emerged with a new name and image – Mandala.
Mandala is a symbol (a circle within a circle within a circle) used by Buddhist monks as an aid to contemplation and was chosen by the band’s manager, Rafael Markowitz (aka Randy Martin), a former TV clown. Markowitz envisioned the band as being a channel for the audience to release its emotions and the newly named outfit returned to the Toronto scene with its “Soul Crusade”, which was met with mass hysteria.
In its new guise, Mandala also made a visual impact with their pinstripe, gangster-style suits and were apparently among the first Canadian bands to use strobe lights at their concerts. Markowitz proved to be a master at manipulating the media and made sure that the band was one of the best paid on the local circuit.
The US market soon beckoned and in late November, Mandala travelled to Los Angeles to play (initially) a weekend show at the Hullabaloo and four nights at the famous Whisky A Go Go in West Hollywood. Kicking off with a performance at the Hullabaloo on 26 November, Mandala’s stage show caused quite a stir and the following weekend a huge crowd turned up, curious to see what all the fuss was about.
In “Los Angeles ‘Sun-set’ raves over The Mandala”, an article for the Toronto Star published on 12 December, the Hullabaloo’s manager Gary Bockasta spoke about the band’s immediate impact on the scene. “They have built up an impetus since their first day,” he said. “They drew 1,000 people billed as co-headliners with a local group. The next Saturday night we had 1,400, which is a capacity crowd for us, and they were our only attraction.
“Almost all of this rush comes from word-of-mouth, since we do almost no paid advertising. I think you could say that, for the money we are paying them, they have been our most successful act so far.”
According to the newspaper report, the band had to cut its finale short at its final weekend show as teenyboppers thronged the stage clutching at Olliver and dragging Glan off his drum stool. What’s more The Monkees, who reportedly were interested in signing the band for a US tour with them, had to flee the club when the excited fans rushed the stage, fearing their own safety.
Thanks to their dynamic stage act, Mandala had won a recording deal with the KR label in the US and, on their return to Canada, recorded their debut single, Troiano’s “Opportunity” c/w Olliver’s “Lost Love” at Chess studios in Chicago with The Dells providing backing vocals. Released back home at the tail end of January 1967, the group’s debut single stormed into the Toronto top 10, peaking at #3 on the CHUM chart on 20 February.
“Opportunity” is arguably one of the best recordings to emerge from the Canadian rock scene during the 1960s. Propelled by Olliver’s soulful voice and The Dells’ massed vocals, the track’s infectious rhythm and Troiano’s gutsy guitar solo is totally absorbing. It’s just a shame that the single never broke into the US national charts or attracted a wider audience.
Opportunity at #19 on CHUM’s Hit Parade, Feb. 6, 1967- it would reach #3 two weeks later.
In March 1967, the band travelled to New York to perform at Steve Paul’s The Scene for an extended engagement, running from 6 March through to 2 April. While in the Big Apple, Mandala took part in Murray “the K’s” famous “Music in the Fifth Dimension” held at the RKO Theater from 25 March to 2 April. The show featured a number of artists, including Wilson Pickett and The Blues Project as well as British bands Cream and The Who, both making their debut US appearances. The group returned to Steve Paul’s The Scene for a second run from 25 April through to 4 May.
While all this was going on, the group’s second single, Victor Chambers’s “Give and Take” c/w band collaboration, “From Toronto ‘67” was released but didn’t fare as well as its predecessor, only peaking at #21 on Toronto’s CHUM chart on 22 May.
In mid-June, Mandala returned to the New York area to play two shows at the Farm at Monroe County Fairgrounds, followed by a welcome back tour, kicking off with a one-nighter at the Bonaventure in Montreal on 22 June. Then, shortly after a show at the Broom and Stone in Scarborough, Ontario with Livingstone’s Tripp on 9 July, Mandala headed back to New York to play at Steve Paul’s The Scene on 18 July. Later that month, the group participated in the highly publicised Garden of Stars show in Montreal.
Returning to Toronto the musicians began work on an album, but creative differences resulted in the sessions being abandoned and after another show at Steve Paul’s The Scene in New York on 27 September, Olliver quit the group in frustration. After a brief respite, where he spent three weeks in the north country wondering what to do next, he formed his own band, the 10-piece soul outfit, George Olliver & His (Soul) Children, which featured several musicians who would end up playing with Mandala in later years.
Speaking to Ralph Thomas in the Toronto Daily Star on 2 December, the day before his new group debuted at Marsaryk Hall in Toronto, Olliver confessed that one of the reasons why he left Mandala was because each member of the group had been on a mere $40-a-week salaries. “It’s true that our weekly salary was $40, but Randy [Martin, the group’s manger and part-owner] used to fine us $1-a-minute if we were late for rehearsals or appointments,” he says.
Olliver explained to Ralph Thomas that he found it hard to be on time in the first year because he was in a state of almost complete exhaustion from overwork. It particularly became a problem when Mandala played at the Murray the K Show from 10am to 10pm, followed by late evenings playing at Steve Paul’s The Scene, where the group worked from 11pm to 4am. “That left us about five hours of sleep a night,” he says. “If we got to the job late the next morning, there would be Randy with his little black book. I averaged about $20-a-week after fines.”
Despite gigging incessantly on the Toronto scene from December 1967-January 1969, and opening for The Hollies in Ottawa during March 1968, Olliver’s new group never recorded and in mid-1969, he emerged with a new outfit, Natural Gas, who recorded an album for Firebird Records in 1969 (the long player, incidentally, includes an Olliver-Chirowski instrumental from the Mandala repertoire, “Tribute to Rubber Boots”).
When the band broke up in late 1970 following a US tour, Olliver subsequently recorded two singles, “I May Never Get To See You Again” c/w “Shine” for Much Records and “Don’t Let The Green Grass Fool You” c/w “If I Can Just Be Strong Enough” for the Corner Stone label (with George Olliver and Friends) before playing and recording with Toronto band The Royals in the mid-’70s. He continues to perform regularly on the local circuit.
Olliver’s departure prompted keyboard player Chirowski to also leave in September 1967. At first Chirowski found work for Canadian Pacific Railways, but soon returned to the live scene with The Power Project. When that band folded, he became a member of the highly-rated rock band, Crowbar. During the ‘70s, Chirowksi worked with Alice Cooper and briefly toured with Lou Reed. In later years, he did session work for Peter Gabriel among others.
Mandala meanwhile recruited singer Roy Kenner (b. 14 January 1948, Toronto, Canada) and keyboard player Henry Babraj from local outfit Roy Kenner & The Associates, who’d made the obscure recording “Without My Sweet Baby”.The new line up debuted at the Roost in Ottawa on 8 October 1967 and the following month kicked off their fourth US tour with a show at the Cheetah in Hollywood.
While playing on the West Coast, Mandala supported Buffalo Springfield at the Swing Auditorium in San Bernardino, California on 3 November.The new personnel signaled a change in the group’s fortunes. After Atlantic chief Ahmet Ertegun acted on a tip from producer Phil Spector and bought the group’s contract from KR, Mandala returned to the studios to record their Soul Crusade album.
The band reportedly recorded six tracks at Atlantic Studios, New York in February 1968 with Arif Mardin, including the new single, the Scales/Jacobs written “Love Itis” c/w Troiano’s “Mellow Carmello Pallumbo”, which was another huge Toronto hit, peaking at #9 on the CHUM chart on 8 July 1968. The band completed the sessions for its long-awaited album, and while in New York, played a show at the Action House with The Fallen Angeles on 17 April.
After further shows on the West Coast, this time at the famed Troubadour in West Hollywood in May, Mandala returned to Toronto where keyboard player Barry Hutt was brought in to replace Babraj after an audition on Parliament Street. (Hutt, incidentally, later played in George Olliver and Friends.)
The new line-up continued to be a popular local draw but Barry Hutt did not stay long and was replaced by Hugh Sullivan from local group, Mr Paul and The Blues Council. Sullivan, who’d once been a member of George Olliver’s band, was later credited on the album’s sleeve for keyboards (along with Babraj). With Sullivan on board, the band made a prestigious appearance at the Philadelphia Music Festival on 24 July 1968.
Bad luck, however, dogged the band; Mandala had intended to tour Canada to promote Soul Crusade but Elliot was involved in a car accident and the tour was delayed until October.
Despite the setbacks, Soul Crusade received positive reviews in Canada. The album features some choice cuts, including “Every Single Day” co-written by Troiano with Kensington Market singer Keith McKie (when he was with The Vendettas) and Troiano’s “World of Love” and “Come on Home”. Local R&B singers Jimmy Livingstone, Diane Brooks, Eric Mercury and Shawn Jackson are among the cast of supporting players.
Mandala’s final single, the non-album tracks and Kenner-Troiano penned “You Got Me” backed by “Help Me”, was only given limited release in December and the group began to fall apart. Despite the positive reviews, the album failed to attract the sales the group had expected (some sources suggest that Ertegun felt artistic differences with Markowitz and Atlantic did not push the album).
During early 1969, the band made several visits to Michigan. On 7 April, Mandala played at the Detroit Pop Festival, held at the Olympia Stadium, alongside the MC5, SRC, Amboy Dukes and others, and then on the following day, performed at another festival, the Grand Rapids Pop Festival, held at the city’s Civic Auditorium, again with the same artists billed.
The end, however, was in sight. Returning to Ontario to play a string of dates, Mandala performed its final show on 1 June at the Hawk’s Nest in Toronto.
Following the group’s demise, Elliot went on to play with Leigh Ashford and Milestone while Sullivan moved to Los Angeles to briefly work with Toronto bass player/singer Neil Merryweather, before later doing sessions for former Steppenwolf frontman John Kay (alongside Glan).
Kenner, Troiano and Glan meanwhile brought in local bass player Prakash John and made a lone album as Bush (the live segment also features Sullivan) before splitting in 1971.
Glan and John subsequently became top session players, working for the likes of Lou Reed and Alice Cooper among others while Kenner and Troiano joined The James Gang after guitarist Joe Walsh left for a solo career. Troiano, who later joined The Guess Who and established a moderately successful solo career, sadly died in May 2005 after a long battle with cancer.
Kenner is currently doing jingles and voice-overs and working with a band in Toronto.While the group’s individual members have continued to plough successful careers as performers, Mandala’s recorded legacy remains largely undiscovered by the wider record buying public. The fact that the band’s Soul Crusade album and the non-album singles have yet to be picked up for a comprehensive CD collection probably doesn’t help, although there are murmurings that one collectors label may be set to put the record straight.
Many thanks to Carny Corbett, Bill Munson, Martin Melhuish, Nicholas Jennings, Brian Hunt, Elliott Prentice, Daniel Sneddon and Craig Webb for their help in piecing the Mandala story together. Special thanks to Craig Webb for the photos and transfers of Oppurtunity and the Rogues’ I Can’t Hold Out Much Longer. Hit Parader, Village Voice and Canadian Teen magazine also proved invaluable sources. Thank you to Ivan Amirault for the RPM scan.
To contact the author with further information or corrections, please email nick_warburton@hotmail.com
Mandala Promotional Bio (scans courtesy Ivan Amirault) Page 1 Page 2 Page 3
Advertised gigs
October 9 1966 – Club Kingsway, Toronto with Shawne & Jay Jackson, The Majestics, The Secrets and The Tripp
November 26 1966 – Hullabaloo, West Hollywood
December 3 1966 – Hullabaloo, West Hollywood
December 1966 – Whisky A Go Go, West Hollywood with Fever Tree (four nights)
December 10 1966 – Hullabaloo, West Hollywood
December 16 1966 – Michael Power High School, Toronto
December 17 1966 – George Harvey High School, Toronto
December 26 1966 – The Hawk’s Nest, Toronto
December 29 1966 – Avenue Road Club, Toronto
January 7 1967 – The Hawk’s Nest, Toronto
January 12 1967 – Ryerson Winter Carnival, Ryerson Theatre, Toronto with Dee & The Yeomen, The Creeps and Dianne Brooks, Eric Mercury and The Soul Searchers
February 3 1967 – Hawk’s Nest, Toronto
February 11 1967 – Orange Hall, Brampton, Ontario
February 11 1967 – Clarke Hall, Port Credit, Ontario
February 12 1967 – Syndicate Club, Toronto (formerly Club Isabella) with The Syndicate Five
March 6-April 2 1967 – Steve Paul’s The Scene, New York with Eric Anderson
March 25-April 4 1967 – Murray the K’s Easter Rock Extravaganza, RKO Theater, Manhattan, New York with The Blues Project, Cream, Wilson Pickett, Jim & Jean, Chicago Loop, Mitch Ryder and others
April 8 1967 – YMHA, Toronto (first show back from US trip)
April 15 1967 – Oshawa Civic Auditorium, Oshawa, Ontario with The Tripp, Shawne Jackson, Jay Jackson & The Majestics, Jack Hardin & The Silhouettes, The Midnites and others
April 16 1967 – Crang Plaza, Downsview, Ontario
April 25-May 4 1967 – Steve Paul’s The Scene, New York
June 16-17 1967 – The Farm, Monroe County Fairgrounds, New York state
June 22 1967 – Bonaventure, Montreal (welcome back tour)
June 23 1967 – Kin-Oak Arena, Oakville, Ontario
June 24 1967 – Milton Arena, Milton, Ontario
June 27 1967 – The Hawk’s Nest, Toronto
June 30 1967 – North York Centennial Centre, Toronto with The Power Project, The Spirit and Livingstone’s Tripp
July 1 1967 – Orange Hall, Brampton, Ontario
July 9 1967 – Broom and Stone, Scarborough, Ontario with Livingstone’s Tripp
July 18 1967 – Steve Paul’s The Scene, New York
July 23-24 1967 – Le Hibou, Ottawa
July 30-August 5 1967 – Garden of Stars, Montreal
August 14 1967 – Laporte County Fair, Laporte, Indiana with The Detroit Wheels
August 14 1967 – Laporte County Fair, Laporte, Indiana with Every Mother’s Son
August 14 1967 – Laporte County Fair, Laporte, Indiana with Every Mother’s Son and The Grass Roots
September 27 1967 – Steve Paul’s The Scene, New York (probably George Olliver’s final show)
October 8 1967 – The Roost, Ottawa (probably Roy Kenner’s first show)
October 27-29 1967 – Cheetah, Hollywood, California (fourth US tour)
November 3 1967 – Swing Auditorium, San Bernardino, California with Buffalo Springfield and Yellow Payges
December 27-28 1967 – Mad Hatter, Allentown, Pennsylvania
April 17 1968 – Action House, New York with Fallen Angels
May 10-12 1968 – Troubadour, West Hollywood
June 27 1968 – North Toronto Memorial Arena, Toronto
June 30 1968 – Port Carling Surf Club, Port Carling
July 6 1968 – Balm Beach Danceland, Balm Beach, Ontario
July 13 1968 – Jubilee Auditorium, Oshawa, Ontario
July 20 1968 – Biquin Island Hotel, Bracebridge, Ontario
July 24 1968 – Philadelphia Music Festival, Philadelphia with The Who, The Troggs, Pink Floyd and others
August 3 1968 – Kee-to-Bala, Bala, Ontario with Rifkin
August 4 1968 – Pav-Orillia, Orillia, Ontario with Scarboro Fair
August 5 1968 – Nelson Arena, Burlington, Ontario with The Dana
Photo: Ron Dey
August 13 1968 – The Hawk’s Nest, Toronto
August 17 1968 – Balm Beach Danceland, Balm Beach, Ontario with Mornington Drive
August 24 1968 – Dorval Arena with the Raja
September 14 1968 – Broom and Stone, Scarborough, Ontario
September 21 1968 – Neil McNeil’s High School, Toronto
October 6-20 1968 – Canadian tour accident – Elliott drops out and others play as quartet with Sullivan covering bass on keyboards
KRLA Beat, Nov. 4, 1967KRLA Beat, April 22, 1967
January 24 1969 – Village Pub, Detroit with Electric Blues Band
April 7 1969 – Detroit Pop Festival, Olympia Stadium, Detroit with MC5, SRC, Amboy Dukes and others
April 8 1969 – Grand Rapids Pop Festival, Civic Auditorium, Grand Rapids, Michigan with MC5, SRC, Amboy Dukes and others
May 17 1969 – Whitby Arena, Whitby with The Bedtime Story
May 24 1969 – Pavilion, Orillia, Ontario
June 1 1969 – Hawks Nest, Toronto
Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Montreal Star and “After Four” section in Toronto Telegram.
Mandala with the Raja at Dorval Arena, August 24, 1968
Michael Lloyd formed the Rogues while he was at Hollywood Professional School. It was his third band after the surf instrumental group the New Dimensions and the vocal version of the Dimensions, the Alley Kats.
Shaun Harris met Lloyd while playing bass in another band at Hollywood Professional, the Snowmen, who had recorded “Ski Storm” with Kim Fowley producing. Shaun joined the Rogues in time to help produce their only 45, “Wanted: Dead or Alive”/”One Day.”
Original US issue on Living Legend“Wanted: Dead or Alive” is basically Hey Joe with altered lyrics, despite the songwriting credit to Harris and Lloyd. It’s an unusual version though, with ethereal harmonies and a guitar solo accompanied by a change in rhythm that just manages to stay on track. On the flip is Michael Lloyd’s excellent “One Day”, which demonstrates the direction his songwriting was heading in.
Lloyd and Harris produced the 45, which was released on Kim Fowley’s Living Legend label. This record marks the start of Shaun Harris’ work with Lloyd; they would soon start the West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band with Shaun’s brother Danny. It may also mark the beginning of Lloyd’s frequent collaborations with Kim Fowley.
On the Living Legend label are also a couple solo 45s by Kim Fowley “Mr. Responsibility”/”My Foolish Heart” and “Underground Lady”/”Pop Art ’66”; a Fowley duet with Gail Zappa as Bunny and Bear titled “America’s Sweethearts”; and one by Vito and the Hands, “Where It’s At,” featuring the Mothers of Invention.
The sleeve above shows the German release, probably a result of Fowley’s connections in Europe.
For another example of Michael Lloyd’s early work, see the entry on Boystown.
The Rogues with Debbie Lori Kaye. Photo from the collection of Joe Spina.
Another band from Sault Ste Marie are (Those) Rogues, who have a fine and rare double-sider on Algoma, “Wish I Could See You Again” / “Girl”.
Members were Bryan Primeau organ and vocals, Rick Rogers guitar, Terry Davey on saxophone, Harvey Bell on bass and Mike Jargan on drums. Terry Davey left the group sometime before they recorded their 45.
In 1963 or ’64, the group recorded a whole LP worth of songs in John Holt’s basement. John Holt had about 10 acetate copies without covers made from the tape, some of which were used for promotion. Any copies John Holt had of this were lost in a house fire, and both Bryan and Terry have lost their copies. Does anyone have this lost artifact of Soo rock n’ roll?
(Those) Rogues – left to right: Mike Jargan, Rick Rogers, Bryan Primeau, Harvey BellCJIC-TV Telethon notice with local Soo groups the Odds and Ends, the A Men and The Rogues.Photo as the Rogues, with Debbie Lori Kaye on vocals and Terry Davey on saxophone at right. Photo courtesy of Rose Davey.
Ivan Amirault explained to me: “The Rogues changed their name to (Those) Rogues, because at the time Mandala used to call themselves the Five Rogues.”
The single was recorded at Arc Studios in Toronto on February 26, 1967 (I’m not positive on the year), with Marshall Shapiro engineering the session. The label lists the address as Case Road. As with the Amen’s 45 the producer is John Holt, but no songwriting credits are listed. As Bryan’s son Joel mentions in the comment below, his father was the songwriter for the group for the 45.
At this point the band was regularly playing at the Sundown Room, though I’m not sure if that was in Sault Ste Marie or elsewhere in Ontario.
Notable in the article below is when Bryan describes the feeling of playing in front of an audience: “It’s like going to an LSD party, without the LSD”!
Joe Spina, program director at Cambrian College in 1966 and 1967 sent me a number of cool photos of the Rogues, some with Debbie Lori Kaye.
Thanks to Ed Nadorozy who sent in scans of the newspaper clipping and the smaller photos, and to Ivan Amirault who interviewed the late John Holt and provided me with info on their acetate and about their name change. Thank you to Joe Spina for photos of the Rogues on stage and with Debbie Lori Kaye.
An early photo of the group
Terry Davey spoke to me about the early days of the group:
The Rogues started their career playing in the Moose Hall in Thessalon in the very early 60’s. The Fireflies gave us a break to fill their spot at the Peppermint Hall in the Soo as they were taking a trip. We played there and then moved across Queen Street to play at the former Knights of Columbus Hall. As I remember we were the last group to play at the Peppermint Hall. The Fireflies had just moved their equipment into the hall when it burned down.
When I was with the Rogues we made an LP with the help of John Holt. John Holt managed the entire thing. I believe it got a little air time at CKCY radio and possibly CJIC, but hey, that was the early 60’s. I had one copy and all the other band members had a copy.
When the Rogues decided to go to Toronto I decided to stick with my job at Algoma Steel. It was a good choice!
That is me on the sax in the photo. I am not that tall. I was standing on the rails of the barstools.
Some years later I also started a group called the Bishops Court Trio with Ed Shire and Jerry Pennet. We played at the Algonquin Hotel and also the Black Knight and other places.
Is Harvey Bell still alive? He was Chief of the Ojibwa tribe for some time.
My son Kevin Davey, formally of the Soo, is making a real name for himself in Canadian music. I had taught him guitar and bass many years ago and now he really makes me proud. He now lives in Vancouver, B.C.
I am currently playing sax, sometimes bass and guitar, in our church’s Prase and Worship group.
Update May 2019: Terrence J. “Terry” Davey passed away on April 5, 2019 in Florida. See comment below for more information on Terry’s life. Thank you to Rose Davey for writing to me with this information and for sending some of the photos seen here. Thanks also to Al McGrath for help with identifying some of the musicians in the photo of the Dimensions.
The Dimensions, from left: John Legacy, Terry Davey, Jerry Pennett, the next two are unidentified. Any help identifying the musicians would be appreciatedTerry Davey’s group in the ’70s, any help identifying the musicians would be appreciated
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The Rogues of Montgomery, AL cut one great rock single, “Put You Down” b/w a version of “Stormy Monday Blues”.
One of the most common band names of the ’60s was the Rogues. This particular group attended prep school at Mercersburg Academy, located southwest of Harrisburg, close to the Maryland state line.
Despite gigging incessantly on the Toronto scene from December 1967-January 1969, and opening for The Hollies in Ottawa during March 1968, Olliver’s new group never recorded and in mid-1969, he emerged with a new outfit, Natural Gas, who recorded an album for Firebird Records in 1969 (the long player, incidentally, includes an Olliver-Chirowski instrumental from the Mandala repertoire, “Tribute to Rubber Boots”).
