The Primates, from left: James Hartofilis, Joseph Ferdinando, Barry Bozzone and John Demetrious. Not pictured: Guy Kaselis. Clipping from Newsday or the NY Post.
I lived in Astoria, New York, in the borough of Queens for three years beginning in 2003. In the mid-60s Astoria was also home to the Primates.
Members were:
John Demetrious – lead vocals and guitar Gus Kaselis – organ and tambourine Barry Bozzone – lead guitar James Hartofilis – bass Joseph Ferdinando – drums
Prior to the Primates, John Demetrious had been performing by the stage name Johnny Michaels and was on the Ford Startime TV show. Next he formed the Panthers with Jimmy Hartofilis, Joe Ferdinando and Gus Kaselis, all later of the Primates, along with Paul Cavounis on rhythm guitar
Joe Ferdinando told me, “The Panthers never recorded, they were a weeding out process that became the Primates.”
By the time Barry Bozzone joined on lead guitar, they had become the Primates. Members of the band went to William Cullen Bryant High School on 31st Ave and 48th St.
Hy Fenster managed the band; he also ran Universal Rehearsal and Recording studio on 20th Street in Manhattan. Joe commented, “Hy Fenster I believe passed away about three years ago. He was a good manager, got us alot of gigs and wasn’t afraid to invest cash if needed.”
The Primates waxed two 45s for the Marko label (“The Long Island Sound”), owned by Jack Hansen who is credited with production. His son Mark Hansen was bassist for the Poor Souls. Rick Grande, guitarist for the Poor Souls writes that Mark “joined the Poor Souls and would come to Astoria on weekends for rehearsals. Around that time, Barry joined The Primates and Mark got to know Barry. Mark told his Dad about The Primates and not long after, they landed the recording contract with Marco Records.”
“Knock On My Door” is their first A-side, released in September 1965 with the moody flipside “She”.
Their second was “Don’t Press Your Luck” / “Cathy” released in early ’66. All their songs were written by John Demetrious.
At some point the Primates became the People of Thee with some of the same members. Joe Ferdinando eventually formed a group called Pier 86 with Ralph Raiola. Joe said, “Panthers, Primates, & People of Thee [were] basically the same group. Pier 86 [was a] totally diferent group of guys except for me. Pier 86 made an album and then women split us up.” John Demetrious had a later group called Jericho with a 45 on MCA.
Marko Records had two singles by Jack Hansen & His Orchestra, plus these releases:
M-920 – Tommy Carberry and Joe Ross – “(Seems to Me) I’ve Been Here Before” / “Wait” (both by Carberry for Darl Pub. Inc.) M-925 – Vic Pierce Quartet – “Idaho” / “Mr. Ghost Comes to Town”
Thanks to Lynn for sending the news clipping on the band and to Joe Ferdinando for the images of the band photos and business card.
Before the Primates a similar lineup was known as the Panthers. From left at top: Jimmy (?), Jimmy Hartofilis, John Demeteious, Joe Ferdinando and Gus Kaselis bottom: Unidentified, unidentified, Jimmy (?), and Teddy LaselisThe Primates at the Astoria Music Store from left: Jim Hartofilis, Gus Kaselis, Barry Bozzone, Joe Ferdinando and John Demetrious
The Souls of the Slain in a New Orleans cemetery, August 1966, left to right: Billy Klause, Carl Flesher, Jim Hutchison, Jerry Heinberg, and Cornel LeBlanc.
The Souls of the Slain cover two songs by Love on their only 45, released on the Rickshaw label. Besides a great version of “7 and 7 Is”, the flip “Can’t Go On” is their version of “Signed D.C.” with a new title.
“Gigging frequently at the Beaconette on the corner of Napoleon and Claiborne, the Souls of the Slain often squared off against future Radiator Frank Bua’s band and U-Doe recording artists the Palace Guards. Their shining moment was opening for the Blues Magoos at Ched’s on Canal and Claiborne. Jerry would eventually leave the band to be replaced by future Radiator Camille Baudoin, while later members included Richard Rhodes on guitar/sitar and Emile Guest of Roger and the Gypsies fame on guitar.” Quote from the Ponderosa Stomp website.
Carl Flesher wrote to me about the band, listing the original lineup as:
Cornel LeBlanc – lead vocals Jerry Heinberg – lead guitar Billy Klause – keyboards Jim Hutchison- bass Carl Flesher – drums
The Souls actually started in 1965, our first gig was on Tulane’s campus that year. Three of us, Jerry, Hutch and I were Tulane students. We all dropped out by 1966. Cornel was at LSU and Billy [Klause] was a senior in high school when we started; they were boyhood friends, having lived across the street from one another during their childhood.
Billy was classically trained, I don’t remember if any one else studied music. I did not. Just decided I could teach myself, which I did by watching every drummer in N.O.
The name of the band was Hutch’s decision/recommendation. At the time we decided on the name, Hutch was taking modern poetry in one of his English classes. Our name was the title of a poem he liked.
I left the band in late 67 and returned to New York where my parents lived. I was replaced by Billy Thomason at that time. I returned to N.O. in 68 to get married and finish my degree at Tulane.
The first photo ( a battle of the bands in a downtown hotel ballroom) does depict me; the second could not have been taken in 66 because I was still with the band. I believe that photo was taken in late 67 or early 68. I will search for a photo of the original band. I believe I have an ad depicting us playing at Ched’s on Canal in ’66.
I hate to complicate this but my wife and I remember another recording (45 rpm). I cannot honestly say if a 45 was released, I don’t remember. What I do remember is the muscle fatigue that comes from repetition while in a studio. I did not play on the recording you have pictured, so it must have been recorded after I left, especially since I do not recall covering those songs.
Carl Flesher
Souls of the Slain at the WTIX New Orleans Teen Fair, 1966
Later guitarist Richard Rhode commented below and added some info in an email to me:
I came on after the 45 was released. We made some recordings both locally and at Robin Hood studio in Texas, but none were released. On the local sessions Billy played a great honky-tonk piano part in a song that Hutch wrote called “Minnie, Ms. Minnie”. (It featured a 4-part kazoo middle section. Only in the 60s.) He also played harpsichord on a re-arrangement of the Rolling Stones “Play With Fire”. It had a nice 4-part harmony in the chorus.
It was around that time Billy left the band because during the same set of sessions I played organ, harmonica, acoustic and electric guitar on another song written by Hutch. I don’t remember much about the Robin Hood session, but somewhere around here I might still have a CD (converted from cassettes) of some of the tracks from both sets of sessions. (I say “might” because Hurricane Katrina intervened). The fidelity wasn’t all that good anyway.
I mentioned that after Billy left I doubled on organ and guitar. I have vivid memories of having to play songs like “Light My Fire” and Vanilla Fudge’s version of “You Keep Me Hanging On”. It was like a juggling act. Cornel was a big help during that time because he was a good rhythm guitar player … he should have played more.
I think there’s a tape/CD of Camille and I jamming for about an hour in his parents’ garage. (But again,Katrina). After I quit the SOS, I majored in classical guitar at Loyola University.
I played in other groups before and after SOS: “The Grendels”, “The Glass Can”, and “Oak Alley”. I quit playing cold-turkey about 14 years ago. Guess playing 15 minute versions of “Color My World” 3 or 4 times a week finally took its toll.
In September 2012, Bob Sehlinger wrote to me about the Robin Gibbs Band, a precursor to the Souls of the Slain:
The Souls of the Slain evolved from a group comprised of Tulane students variously call the Robin Gibbs Band or the Hollow Men. The group was formed by bassist Jim Hutchinson and lead guitar Robin Gibbs and also featured Dave Wadler on rhythm guitar, vocals by Randy Fertita, and later Peggy Hewitt, and myself (Bob Sehlinger) on drums.
At Mardi Gras in 1965 the group was playing at the Red Garter Club Patio on Bourbon Street, and had just lost its lead vocalist. Cornell LeBlanc, then a high school student, came to the club and approached the band during a break asking if he could sing a couple songs. He pretty much knocked everyone out and was subsequently asked to join the group. After the spring semester Robin Gibbs left Tulane and the group broke up. Subsequently Jim Hutchinson and Cornell Le Blanc went on to form the Souls.
Bob Sehlinger
Promo photo, 1966, l-r (corrected, but may still be wrong): Jim Hutchison, Billy Thomaston, Cornel LeBlanc (in front), Jerry Heinberg and Billy Klause.
Photos below from the Ponderosa Stomp at the Rock ‘n Bowl, on October 1, 2004. Drummer Billy Thomaston wrote: “the only person not playing at Rock-N-Bowl was then organ player Billy Klause, substituted by close & life long friend Sherman Bernard. The other guitar player is Camile Baudoin of the Radiators who joined after Jerry Heinberg left in late 1967.”
Thanks to Billy Thomaston and Carl Flesher for sending in the photos of the band.
The Wig – from left: Jess Yaryan, Rusty Wier, Benny Rowe, Bill Wilmot and Johnny Richardson. Thanks to Liz for the correction.
Updated October 9, 2009
The other great Austin, Texas band of the mid-60’s was the Wig: Rusty Wier (drums, vocals), Benny Rowe (lead guitar), John Richardson (guitar), Jess Yaryan (bass) and Billy Wilmont (keyboards).
Benny Rowe had been in an earlier version of the band known as the Wigs that had toured Europe.
The 45 version of “Drive It Home” is phenomenal, but the live version makes the studio cut seem tame in comparison! The live recording was done at the Jade Room, one of their regular spots.
The flipside of the Goyle 45 is “To Have Never Loved at All”, a good ballad I hadn’t paid much attention to until someone requested to hear it so I made a transfer. The Wig released “Drive It Home” / “To Have Never Loved at All” in November 1966.
“Crackin’ Up” is as exciting as any song cut in the mid-60s. The opening guitar riff is unforgettable for one thing. Rusty Wier’s drumming propels the song, his vocals are confident and Benny Rowe’s guitar solo is intense.
Wier wrote “Crackin’ Up”. The flip is “Bluescene.” It came out on two labels, BlacKnight and Empire. The BlacKnight single is rare enough and came out in May of ’67, but the Empire ones seems even harder to find – one copy I’ve seen was issued on yellow vinyl – anyone have a scan of that?
I don’t have a release date for the Empire version – it may have actually come later than the Blacknight.
There are more live tracks along with both sides of an early unreleased 45, “Little By Little” and “Forever And A Day” that I haven’t heard yet.
After the Wig broke up, Yaryan and Wier formed the Lavender Hill Express, blending country and pop sounds. A lot of information on that group can be found on the Sonobeat site.
I just heard Randy Wier passed away after battling cancer. The Austin360 site had an obituary but it has been taken down. Tommy Taylor had written a comment on an Austin Chronicle article for a personal take on Rusty’s influence on the Austin music scene, but that is now down too. I hope Mr. Taylor does not mind my reproducing his letter here:
Dear Editor,
On reading this week’s article concerning Rusty Wier and his passing, I couldn’t help but make note of the incorrectness of a portion of the story [“Off the Record,” Music, Oct. 16]. Rusty Wier did not join Gary P. Nunn’s Lavender Hill Express. The Lavender Hill Express was formed as a “supergroup” featuring the best guys from many other top local groups. Leonard Arnold from Felicity (Don Henley), Jess Yaryan and Rusty Wier from the Wig, Layton DePenning from Baby Cakes.
Gary P. Nunn was not even in the Lavender Hill Express originally. The original keyboardist was Johnny Schwertner. The group was a year into its tenure before Gary came on the scene. It was Rusty Wier’s Lavender Hill Express from the get-go.
I was disappointed in the size and content of the article. This man was at the very heart and very beginning of everything that this music community now holds dear and prides itself upon. While I realize that the 2002 article pretty much covered the main points [“I Before E,” Music, May 31, 2002], Rusty Wier deserves the cover once again. The passing of these luminaries in our local music community needs top attention, even though they may no longer be at the height of their careers or as popular with the kiddies as the latest flavor of the month.
Rusty Wier was an Austin icon. He had the first major label record contract ever awarded to an Austin artist. He was the first person in Austin to stand out from the crowd of players in bands, to be recognized as an individual, even as a drummer. Rusty Wier and the Wig held the No. 1 slot with their two-sided single “Drive It Home”/”To Have Never Loved at All” for several weeks in 1966-67 on K-NOW, the only radio station in town that played popular music, above groups like the Beatles.
In Austin, Texas, before Rusty Wier, there was nothing.
Tommy Taylor
Rusty Wier’s official site, www.rustywier.com (now also defunct) had more on his career, and many photos, including some I’ve reproduced here.
Rusty Wier in 1969, when he was with the Lavender Hill Express. Photo taken by Hilton Puckett and reproduced from Rusty Wier’s official site (now defunct)I like how the clipping above calls Rusty the “lead drummer”! It also gives a different spelling of his last name.
The Mauroks were a psychedelic white group on a label better known for soul and funk. On “Susan” the opening keyboard riff combines with reverbed guitar strumming over deadened strings and a great drum beat to make a instantly arresting groove. A quick, wild chorus with excellent distorted guitar and it’s right back to that fine opening pattern. A great and danceable obscurity, it was written by bassist Tom Kaup and keyboardist Larry Keiser.
Richard Babeuf and Frank Szelwach produced the record. [See my article on Sportin’ Life for more detail on Babeuf’s music career.]
Their guitarist Howard G. Salada (“Butch”) was stationed at Kagnew Station, a U.S. military base in Asmara, Ethiopia (now Eritrea) in 1966-67.
On a Kagnew veteran’s website he wrote “I played in several bands at the Top 5 and the Oasis [nightclubs on the base] as well as a few of the clubs downtown. First with the Counts, then the Mauroks and then the Remains. We had a good time. The Mauroks joined together again in ’68 in NYC and made an attempt at the BIG time. The other members of the group were: Larry Keiser (linguist), Tom ‘Tuck’ Kaup (Navy) & Vic D’Amore. Bobby Ward, who was there before me also joined us in NY. Our first drummer was a Navy guy called Willy. The only one I’ve kept in touch with was Tuck. The others are lost in America. Maybe someone knows where they are?”
The reformed Mauroks in the States, 1969
The photos below show the Counts playing live at the Oasis in 1966 while stationed at Kagnew in Ethiopia. Larry Keiser and Butch Salada played in the Counts before forming the Mauroks.
l-r: Tony from Asmara on sax, Lauren ‘Larry’ Keiser going wild on the keyboards, Daniel Pomerleou on guitar, unknown playing the tambourine, Howard ‘Butch’ Salada playing the left-handed Gibson SG guitar, and Al Trautman is playing bass in the striped shirt on the far right.Willy is on drums in the back.
Al Trautman played bass guitar for the Counts. He writes:
I heard Jerry Lee Lewis on the Steve allen Show, told Grandmaw that I wanted to play piano and she GAVE me the upright in her living room. Dad put the piano in the shed (was working midnights) and 3 months later the Del Royals were driving down John Lewis Road, heard me and hired me on the spot.
I joined the USAF the day JFK was assassinated. When I got to Asmara, I had the bass guitar and a GOOD amplifier. Larry auditioned me and the following week I was playing. It beat the Nam thing, that is sure.
The guys were GOOD people, great musicians. I was MORE in the Fats Domino/Lil’ Richard/Jerry Lee Lewis vein BUT doing the Beatles, England thing was what the Mauroks was all about.
I volunteered for Asmara, did 6 months and stayed messed up with the VERY cheap beer that was so popular there. Tuck came in right about then, used the bass system and I went back to Turner AFB.
Danny (don’t remember the LAST name) was a great guitarist. Butch has a good technique.
Nov. 22, 1967 I got out, got married to a high-school sweet-heart from the pass and have been married to her 35 years. Damned, how time flies, God bless, please keep in touch…AL
Nowadays Al is busy fixing up his home after Hurricane Rita hit in 2005 and is back to playing his first instrument, the piano. More photos of the Counts and Mauroks are available on the Kagnew Station website.
Thanks to Dirk Sermeels of Belgium for alerting me to the Kagnew Station site.
French 45 sleeve – can anyone give an accurate who’s who in this photo?
The Stains came out of Yale University in New Haven. They recorded one 45 in 1966, then disbanded and reformed as the Five Cards Stud.
“Now and Then” is a garage classic, written by Gordon Strickland, Jonathan Coles and Mike Farmer. The actual A-side is a good cover of the Lovin’ Spoonful’s “Did You Ever Have to Make Up Your Mind”, done with just a little crunch on the guitar.
Richard Perry produced the Stains 45 as well as their first single as Five Cards Stud, “Everybody Needs Somebody” / “Be-Bop-A-Lula” on Lieber-Stoller’s Red Bird label. Perry would go on to produce Tiny Tim’s and Captain Beefheart’s first LPs. The Five Cards Stud cut another 45 for Smash, “Beg Me” / “Once”, and the A-side became a pick hit on WLOF in Orlando in March of 1967, breaking into the top 20 in April.
Vocalist and rhythm guitarist D. Gordon Strickland spoke to me about his time with the Stains and Five Cards Stud:
I recall hearing “Hearts of Stone” when I was around 8 years old and became very interested in music. When Elvis hit the scene I knew what I wanted to do when I grew up. While I liked to sing and play the guitar, I didn’t form a band until 1964, freshman year in college. I had been asked to be the drummer in a band in high school, but I declined since they only played instrumentals. It was also partly because I didn’t know how to play the drums!
The Stains were essentially myself, Jon Lippincott on drums, Jonathan Coles on lead guitar, Rick Lander on bass and later Mike Farmer on Farfisa. Jon and Jonathan were roommates of mine and Rick lived across the hall. Mike was a year or two older and we hooked up with him after a few months.
In the beginning, I played rhythm guitar. Jon had never played drums and Rick had never played bass. We were pretty bad for a while. Jonathan played classical guitar having studied with Andres Segovia and cared little for rock and roll but agreed because he thought it would be fun. He never used a pick but played electric guitar with his fingers.
I don’t quite remember how we hooked up with Tom Curtis, also a Yale student, but he became our manager. His grandfather and grand uncle were the Cohn brothers who founded Columbia Pictures so he had a flair for promotion. He actually came up with the name. Initially he wanted it to be Vandal Stains and the Daises but I declined to become Vandal so we settled on the Stains.
The first dance we played at was at the Yale Divinity School. It was actually quite amusing as the crowd was somewhat subdued. I got so worked up on stage dancing around that I kicked the main electric plug out of the wall so we ended a song midway through. The audience thought we were new wave.
There were several bands at Yale at the time. Prince La La was one that was heavy R & B. A local New Haven band called the Shags was popular. The Stains mostly played at colleges in the northeast.
Richard Perry was working for George Goldner when we met George and was also dating his daughter, Linda. George was old school. At one point, I was ad libbing during the fade out of one song we were recording and said Mary Jane. George asked me what that had to do with anything and when I told him it was slang for marijuana, he went back and deleted it. His glory days were behind him and he let Richard be more involved.
We signed with Red Bird but as you’d expect, never saw a dime. The problem was, and may still be, that the real money is in promotion. All we could ever get anyone to do was essentially pay for the session time and mail out some 45s. I remember going to a radio station in Hartford, CT and being shown a room stacked with probably 1000 45s that represented a few weeks of receipts. The station would obviously have slots for new songs by known artists so you were competing for very few openings in the play list. To get a better audience, you needed to spend money which our label never did.
Richard Perry had his “office in the Brill building in NYC. We visited him once and he told us he wanted us to do a cover of “Did You Ever Have to Make Up Your Mind” by the Lovin Spoonful. He had us practice it in his office. What he didn’t tell us was that Kama Sutra Records was next door, the Spoonful’s label. They heard us and came over to find out what we were doing. Needless to say they quickly released their version as a single which they hadn’t planned on doing.
Richard Perry is the same guy who produced Streisand, the Pointer Sisters and others. I remember he played me a demo and said that this was going to make him a name. It was an atrocious song but he was right. He had discovered Tiny Tim. I was under whelmed by his musical prowess but shows what I know.
Tom Curtis got us a summer job at Harlow’s in NYC, where the Rascals had recently played. Tom felt that the band members were not sufficiently strong to go “professional” so we held auditions and got three new Yale students and a keyboard player from Upsala College, in essence an entirely new band. The new members were all accomplished musicians but we had to learn a lot of material in a short period of time.
We were at Harlow’s for 10 weeks, playing from 9 – 3 am, half hour on half off, six nights a week. We were reviewed by Variety, again courtesy of Tom’s connections. That summer we also opened for Otis Redding at Central Park. Again, Tom called up and spoke to the President of Rheingold Beer, the sponsor, and talked us on to the show. This was the first time I had seen Otis live and afterwards it made me wonder what I was doing in the business although he said to me as we left the stage, “Not bad, kid”. We also played at Palisades Park on a Cousin Brucie show that included Marvin Gaye.
The last song we recorded was produced by Artie Kornfeld, who later organized Woodstock. That song, “Beg Me”, was a remake of a Chuck Jackson song and had some success, reaching number 2 in Raleigh and number 18 in Orlando. Again we saw no money and there was no effort to promote the song.The way it got to number 2 in Raleigh is that the local radio station was doing a spot for a local band that didn’t have a record so just happened to pull ours from a pile and played it in the background. He started to get calls so started playing the record. He told me it would have reached number 1 but it was based on local record sales and they ran out of copies. We ended up playing before about 10,000 people in Raleigh on a show with the Tams.
I would have continued to pursue music but after college in 1968, I had two choices, get drafted into the Army or volunteer for the Navy. I did the latter and when I got out about three years later, it just seemed too late. I did write a few songs and even had Richard Perry interested in one of them but nothing came of it.
D. Gordon Strickland
Anyone have a photo of the group?
“Beg Me” at #8 on WKIX’s top 30 in Raleigh NC, May 20, 1967
Weird Street Carnival from left: Bobby Magee (Shelley), Rick Garfinkel and Pete McCormick
Bobby McGee – vocals Ron Schwalbe – guitar Rick Garfinkel – guitar Dave Prop – keyboards Pete McCormick – bass Robby Bruno – drums
I really like both sides of this 45. “Subterranean Edible Fungus” is indescribable early psych inspired in equal parts by nursery rhymes and Dylan. “The Inner Truth” starts out like the Animals “It’s My Life” but quickly becomes something completely original. I would guess this 45 to be from about 1968.
Production is credited to Thorn Creatives, and the songwriting credits to Shelley (Bobby McGee), Randell (Ron Schwalbe) and Thorn (George Fragos). Other than the Portchester address on the Copra label, I knew very little about the Weird Street Carnival until I received comments from guitarists Ron Schwalbe and Rick Garfinkel.
“Sad Mud Cats (immediate predecessor to Weird Street Carnival): Robbie Bruno (I think), Rick Garfinkel, Bobby Magee, Ronnie Schwalbe (Randell). Photo taken at The Golden Fountain in Pleasantville, NY”
Rick Garfinkel sent in the photos here and wrote to me about the band:
We played together in a bunch of classic 60s garage bands, Weird Street Carnival being the last one. Prior to that, we were “Sad Mud Cats”, “The Cloud Factory”, “The Colonials”, “The Contours” (no not that Contours), “The Impalas”, and more that I have forgotten. Various members came and went along with the names over a period of about 8 years. We were based out of Mt. Kisco, NY, with members from a variety of towns within an hour’s drive; White Plains, Bedford Hills, Ossining, Chappaqua, and others. The band was constantly morphing as members (and musical styles) came and went. Most of us were constant during high school, but became seasonal when I left for college in Ohio. I would come home for Christmas and summer breaks and the band would always kick somebody out so that I could re-join.
Sad Mud Cats was apparently the name of a ragtime band from the 20s that someone Ronnie knew told him about. He insisted we we change our name from The Colonials to Sad Mud Cats, as he was not part of the original Colonials, and we basically didn’t care much what we called ourselves as long as we could play.
I was not playing on the record, but was in the studio at the time of the recording. I had just gotten back from Ohio that day and didn’t have time to learn the nuances (ha) of “Subterranean Edible Fungus”. I can’t really recall any of the details of the recording session, even where the studio was. It might have been Portchester, but I couldn’t swear to it. The guitars on the record are Pete (“Limey”) McCormick and Ronnie, and if I remember correctly, Pete overdubbed the bass. Dave Prop was on the Hammond organ, and I don’t remember who was playing drums, probably Robbie Bruno. I just watched from the control room and harassed the rest of the guys that night, but slid back into the group for the rest of my time in NY.
As an interesting side note, we actually had a long debate on whether to call the song or the band Weird Street Carnival until someone, probably Bobby, came up with Subterranean Edible Fungus as an alternative. We unanimously decided that we didn’t want that to be the band name, so it became the song. I read last night on some website, that has another after-the-fact video to the song, that the song was written (and named) as the result of a bad mushroom trip; no truth in that whatsoever. Other than the occasional joint, we were drinkers, not dopers, and certainly not into psychedelics.
We recorded quite a bit during the mid-60’s with various combinations of band members under various names at various studios. The only one I can definitely remember was a session at CBC Studios in NYC with “The Contours”, one of the earlier groups, in 1964. We cut 4 demos, none of which were ever picked up. Later we recorded – and I have no idea where – as The Colonials (after Bobby Magee joined the group, but before Ronnie Schwalbe, with myself and Pete McCormick on guitar, Tom Connolly on bass, and Ray Smith on drums). That record did get pressed on the Tru-Lite label, and was readily found on juke boxes throughout the area at the time. The “A”-side was “Little Miss Muffet”, the flip side was “Do-Pop-Si (Down Down)”. They were of the bubble gum genre and while doing my Google search came across a rip-off version on U-tube; our song, our name, but not us. I have the original 45s of both of the records that were commercially pressed, although after 40+ years, it would take someone with a lot more digital know-how than I to make them sound anything like they used to.
Bobby Magee was a unique character, who modeled himself after Bob Dylan (in a way), and was a pretty creative writer. He lived in Ossining, not far from Sing Sing prison, and we would spend countless hours there listening to him expound on a variety of subjects as we tried to learn his latest songs. As well as writing most of our original stuff, he also played guitar at times, although it inhibited his “emoting” at the microphone, so that was rare, indeed. We were all relatively versatile musicians and often would switch around during a set to play something else. I recall playing the keyboards for our version of “Summer in the City”, and often played bass, sometimes even the drums. We would just rotate around the stage and swap instruments.
The opening chords played behind Bobby’s Dylanesque opening to “Fungus” are, according to him, the chords to the Lord’s Prayer. Bobby was (or perhaps, is) a unique and strange guy; haven’t kept up with him, nor heard from him since 1968. Ronnie, was the real driving force of the band; he arranged for most of the gigs, made sure everyone got there (or if not, that a replacement was), took care of business and was in it for the pure fun of playing. We worked together in White Plains during the daylight hours when I was home from college, and stayed in touch into the early 70s, but after I moved to Florida, we lost touch.
“The Cloud Factory (? – can’t really remember): Ronnie Schwalbe, Rick Garfinkel, Evan Elliott (drums), Donny Connahan, Dave Prop (organ). Ronnie Schwalbe and Donnie Connahan were the Ron and Don of the Rondons.”
Pete McCormick continued to play with anyone he could for as long as I knew. Up until about 15 years ago, my phone would ring in the middle of the night – 2:00 or 3:00 am – and it would be Pete, wanting me to hear the latest thing he was working on, some new digital/electronic guitar, or saying he was on vacation in Ft. Myers (an hour south) and I should drive down and jam with him. It was Pete’s passing that started my whole quest to find these guys. Little by little, I’ve been finding them and will continue until the spark is extinguished.
It was a great time to have a guitar in your hands; a great time for music and living.
Rick Garfinkel
Thank you to Rick for the information and photos.
“Same group as above: Rick Garfinkel, Dave Prop, Evan Elliott. This group was thrown together for a few gigs at about the same time as Weird Street…part of the morphing process.”
A sharp 6-piece group from Rumson and Seabright, New Jersey. The Mods often performed in Asbury Park and at Le Teen de Vous in Middletown and The Oaks in McGuire’s Grove, with competition like the Castiles (one of Springsteen’s first bands) and the Inmates.
The original band members were Rich Lillie on vocals and guitar, Phil Watson on lead guitar, Bob Busch on bass and Bruce Cunningham on drums. Soon they added Rich’s brother Bob Lillie and Wally Hageman on guitar.
The band released two 45s on Al Mott’s Revelation VII label, the first a promotion for a local Ford dealer, “Go Steinbach’s Mustang”, written by guitarist Phil Watson. It’s probably based on some other song by Ronny and the Daytonas or the Hondells and clocks in at 1:45. The flip was a pounding cover of “Satisfaction” lasting nearly four minutes without even a guitar break – must have been some workout for vocalist Rich Lillie.
Bruce Lowe (Cunningham) recalled a time when Rich Lillie really did lose his voice, when the band played seventeen shows in two weeks during December of 1964!
Their second release has their greatest recorded moment, the fantastic “Ritual”, another original by Phil (impressively rendered Phillips Cromwell Watson on the label). “Ritual” has some of the most misogynistic lyrics of any garage song (which is saying a lot!). There’s no denying the power of the opening riff when the bass and drums kick in. The double-tracked vocals are also unusual.
This release has a good cover of “Everybody Needs Somebody” on the flip. This band had a polished image – short hair, sharp suits, but “Ritual” and these Stones’ covers shows a tougher side – in the right venue they must have been a great group to see live.
“Ritual” appears a second time on the Mod label as the b-side to a song based on the TV show Candid Camera. This was a tie-in to the band’s appearance lip-synching the song on the show.
The show aired in November of 1966 and led to offers to tour, but by that time the members were attending college. The Mods played occasional shows for years afterwards with changing personnel, but never again strived for national attention.
Bruce Lowe used to keep a page on the band online, but I think it’s down now. The photo, article and ‘Go Mustang’ scans were taken from his site.
Article announcing appearance on Soupy Sales show – Rich Lillie not in this photo lineupPromo sheet announcing their second 45, September 18, 1965 (I’m not sure why it says their first Revelation VII release – this 45 had a label #R 105, while the Mustang promo has #R 104).
It’s All Meat were from Toronto and in 1969 – 70 recorded a couple 45s and an LP for Columbia, released only in Canada. Their first 45, “Feel It”, is great hard rock garage. The second, “You Don’t Notice the Time You Waste”, is from just a year later, but the band had definitely matured.
To me, at this point they sound like the New York Dolls, even though this is three years before the Dolls even got together. This song is also on their very rare lp, which has many other good tracks like “Make Some Use of Your Friends” and “Crying Into the Deep Lake”. Despite good song writing and a promising sound, the band broke up before anything could really get going.
Band members were:
Jed MacKay – organ, piano and lead vocals Rick Aston – bass and vocals Rick McKim – drums Wayne Roworth – guitar Norm White – guitar
All their songwriting was done by McKim and MacKay, who also produced one of the great Canadian garage 45s, the Underworld’s “Bound” / “Get Away”.
Since writing about It’s All Meat here a few months back, I started corresponding with Jed MacKay, keyboardist, singer and songwriter for the band. Here are his answers to the many questions I had. Jed has also kindly given me permission to post three songs of unreleased tracks by the Underworld, taken from a rare acetate.
“The Strange Experiment of Dr. Jarrod” is a psychedelic gem, driving, frantic, with cool lyrics and all hell breaking loose after the guitar solo! There can’t be many unreleased songs that come up to the level of this classic!
“Love 22” is a fine pop garage song taken at a very fast tempo.
There’s a longer version of “(Tied and) Bound” which had been edited by about a minute for the 45.
Jed MacKay: Rick and I weren’t in the Underworld – we just produced them. We were in the process of forming It’s All Meat at the time. The singer was Ken Ketter (known as Mondo), and the lead guitarist was Jim “Spanish” Carmichael. A footnote is that their drummer – Gil Moore – went on to form the successful band Triumph.
Chris Bishop: How did you come to produce the Underworld?
Jed MacKay: Rick’s mother knew Gil Moore’s mother. We went out and had a listen, liked them, and decided to try and get them recorded. Regency was a pretty successful label, but our stuff was too wild for them. It was early ’68 – Regency (and mainstream radio) were still trying to deal with the sonic universe Jimi had opened up. I believe “Bound” was released as the A side. I don’t remember ever hearing it on the air. “Go Away” was deemed too wild for radio as was another unreleased track, “The Strange Experiment of Dr. Jarrod.” They didn’t suggest we produce anything else for them either!
Chris Bishop: Was there a 4th song recorded at those sessions?
Jed MacKay: Yes, we recorded Go Away, Dr. Jarrod, (Tied and) Bound, and Love 22. We’d hoped “Jarrod” would be the A-side of the 2nd single, and were trying to make sure of it. It never crossed our minds that Go Away/Bound would be too much for radio, effectively scuttling all future plans. Love 22 was definitely a b-side, very much a 60s song.
Chris Bishop: I read that Rick McKim’s dad was president of Phonodisc and that’s what helped sign the Underworld. Is this true? Did that connection help It’s All Meat get onto Columbia?
Jed MacKay: It certainly helped get The Underworld recorded. It’s All Meat was managed by a guy who called himself Jack London – (he’d had a hit as Jack London and the Sparrows – some of whom went on to form Steppenwolf I think) – and Jack was responsible for our Columbia deal.
Chris Bishop: Were you in bands before It’s All Meat?
Jed MacKay: From 1965-67, Rick and I were in a band called the Easy Riders. Our repertoire mostly consisted of blues, & Stones, Kinks, with some amped up folk stuff as well.
Chris Bishop: Was It’s All Meat named after the Animals song?
Jed MacKay: The name of the band was inspired by a dog food commercial that boasted “100% meat – no filler.”
Chris Bishop: Did It’s All Meat play many live shows or tour?
Jed MacKay: We played around Toronto, and out of town now and then. Our home base was a club called The Cosmic Home.
Chris Bishop: How was the Toronto scene in the 60’s and early 70’s? Did you know any other bands there like the Ugly Ducklings, David Clayton Thomas, Dee & the Yeomen, etc? What did you think of them?
Jed MacKay: To be honest, we were so busy rehearsing and playing, we really didn’t get to be a part of their scene. They were all just a little ahead of us, I think. We were certainly aware of them, just never really crossed paths with them.
Chris Bishop: The LP lists the band members, but who sang? What kind of organ and keyboards did you play at the time?
Jed MacKay: I was the lead singer on every released track except Wayne sang lead on the LP cut “Self-Confessed Lover”. “If Only” – that was Rick Aston’s lead. Otherwise he sang the harmonies. I played a Gibson 101, which had a pretty good piano sound, organ sound, and a few others. Kind of a primitive synth.
Chris Bishop: It’s All Meat is a fantastic album, professional production and songwriting, of the time yet ahead of it in some ways. It’s surprising that the band didn’t release any more records, as you obviously had a lot of promise.
Jed MacKay: It’s a shame the band broke up. We had lots of material to go, but couldn’t hold it together. Some of the unrecorded songs will surface in a musical I’m currently working on.
Chris Bishop: Were you happy with the Canadian music scene in the 70’s?
Jed MacKay: I always found stuff to like, but it wasn’t as interesting to me as the eclecticism and experimentation of the 60’s.
Article on the Cosmic Home from the Toronto Daily Star, June 7, ’69Ad for first It’s All Meat single, RPM, November 23, 1969
Don McKim in RPM, January 10, 1970Guitarist Wayne Roworth recently contacted me and gave his story about the band in answer to my questions:
My first guitar was a dual pickup Sears (Simpsons back in the Canada day) when I was twelve. Learned by ear to songs like Tequila & Walk Don’t Run by the Ventures. Played in basements and local Community centers in Maple, Ontario. Moved up to a Harmony then a Vox then my Dad became interested in playing and he bought a used Rickenbacker 12 string.
I think I was playing a 1969 Gibson Custom Gold Top and was 18 years old when I answered an ad in the paper for a guitarist. Jed and Rick McKim were forming a band. I showed up with both guitars at I think a church somewhere in Toronto, Jed could tell you.
I think we jammed a bit then Jed wanted me to improvise on a song he and Rick had wrote called “Crying Into The Deep Lake..Baby”. For some reason I picked up my Dad’s Ric and picked off a melody in G. Jed said later that “moody” picking landed me the spot. I was the last member to join.
I talked my parents into me leaving school and becoming a full time musician. Since we rehearsed and played almost daily everything seems to blend together. I’ll try and highlight some moments.
– played the Cosmic Home club constantly as our home base. I remember Norm stabbing the headstock of his Strat into the white ceiling tiles and bits of tile would fall on people. He also used the mic stand as a slide, moving the guitar neck on the chrome pole. I remember Rick McKim used to hit his knuckles on the snare rim causing them to bleed. I have blood in one of my old guitar cases! After one gig there me and Norm got into my 1961 Comet and to our surprise there was a blonde in the back seat. She said she just wanted to hang with us, darn our socks, etc. Well she hung with us but I don’t remember my socks getting mended!
– recorded “Feel It” at Eastern Sound Studios. I think I wrote the guitar run on the Gold Top at the studio. It was my last time I used it before trading it in for a 1969 Gibson SG Custom.
– opened for “Muddy Waters” at the Rock Pile an old Masonic Temple on Yonge & Davenport. I saw Stevie Ray Vaughn play the same stage there in ’83 and it brought back memories. I remember that was our first large crowd, around 5,000, where we played “Feel It”.
– recorded the album at RCA Victor studios somewhere downtown Toronto. We did each track “Live” and only overdubbed the vocals and piano. Norm and I shared a lot of the leads. I still don’t know how to replicate the frenzied lead in “Roll My Own”.
– We used to haul our gear in Rick Aston’s VW bus which broke down a lot I remember it breaking down on the 400 heading to Barrie somewhere. We did make the gig. Don’t know how with no cell phones etc.
– speaking of gear here was our stuff as I remember it. We all had Marshall 4 x 12 dual stacks with 100 watt heads. Some sites mention Norm having a Traynor set up. That was after It’s All Meat. Rick McKim played a full Rogers kit. Norm played only his 1967 Strat. I played the 1967 Ric 12 string and the 1969 Gibson SG Custom. Rick Aston played a Ric bass with nylon strings. I think Jed’s keyboards were a Gibson something but check with him for accuracy. That gear, save the guitars, was stolen from a downtown practice warehouse sometime after the Columbia deal. We all thought it was our manager, Jack London, did it since we all were not doing well at the time.
As for me….I have always been playing in dozens of bands. I did go to Nashville to lay down some tracks on stuff I have been writing a few years back. I have several original cd’s recorded in various studios. Right now I am just having fun in a small trio playing the North Florida circuit and living in a log cabin on the Suawannee River. Over the years someone gave me the stage name of “Stayne” and it just stuck for some reason.
Jed MacKay commented to me on Wayne’s audition: “He had a Rickenbacker 12 string and a Les Paul. Norm had a Strat. We liked the variety. He’s right about the audition – I think it was in the basement of a church called St Lawrence United, on Bayview south of Lawrence. Rick and I had played Toronto’s first rock’n’roll church service there a couple of years earlier with our previous band, The Easy Riders. It was such big news it got a front page photo in the Toronto Star!”
It’s All Meat is legally reissued on CD on the Hallucinations label with bonus demo tracks and the Feel It single included. It was also issued on vinyl by Void Records in the late 1990’s in a fine gatefold cover with a 7″ of the Feel It single and a glossy photo of the band. Jed tells me that 2009 should see another limited release of the material on Hallucinations.
I want to thank Jed MacKay for his time in answering my inquiries and permission for posting the unreleased tracks, and to Wayne Roworth for his recollections. Thanks also to Mark Taylor and Masterbeat64 for their high-quality label scans and rips of the original Underworld 45 and also to Wesley for sending me the article on the Cosmic Home. Thank you to Ivan Amirault for the scans of the RPM articles.
Short article on It’s All Meat, RPM, November 23, 1969, mentions positive review from Ryerson’s Eyeopener, RPM, August 22, 1970
On a personal note, this Friday, June 23rd, will be the last time I deejay a garage night at the Tainted Lady Lounge in Williamsburg, which I’m sorry to report is closing at the end of the next week. Come out to hear some of the best djs in New York playing rare and amazing garage! Guest DJs will include the current drummer for the Miscreants – Jeff Cuyubamba, Bossy Boots, and Michael Robinson.
The Tainted Lady Lounge 318 Grand St at Havemeyer Williamsburg, Brooklyn 10 til late, no cover
For over a year now I’ve had a monthly gig there to play whatever the hell I want. In that time I’ve mercilessly subjected the Williamsburg trendites, neighborhood thugs and slumming pinheads with hours of fuzz-driven vinyl wrecks. For the most part, people stick around, but that’s due to the retro soft-core atmosphere and the charms of bartender Noemi more than any affinity for garage punk. I’ll really miss my nights there and all the fun and mayhem that came with them. Thank you Deb Parker for giving me the dj spot with no strings attached.
The Magic Plants were a New York City group connected to Harry Lookofsky, owner of World United Studios.
The only band members whose names I could find are Peter Schekeryk and Tom Finn, but since first posting this, Tom Finn contacted me to say that Mick Wexler was lead singer and also guitarist on the record. The band’s drummer was Warren David Scherhorst who became the first drummer for the Left Banke.
Finn stated in a later interview that he was just 16 at the time, not a good bassist yet, and only sang backup vocals on the record. Very likely then, at least some of the musicians on the record were studio pros. Contrary to prior publications, this record was never released with a World United label, but went straight to Verve in December ’65, making no impression on the public at the time.
While recording “I’m A Nothing”, Finn met Lookofsky’s son, Michael Brown, also just 16, who was working as an assistant at the studio. They started composing songs with Finn’s friends, drummer George Cameron and singer Steve Martin. Together they became the Left Banke, managed and produced by Harry Lookofsky.
John Abbott, who arranged this single, also arranged and played bass and guitar on several early Left Banke recordings done within a couple months of the Magic Plants record. This leads me to believe there’s a good chance that he played bass on “I’m a Nothing”. I had thought maybe Hugh McCracken (another local studio pro) played guitar – though Tom Finn says he did not.
The b-side here, “I Know She’s Waiting There”, hints at something of the future Left Banke sound, and also has a beautiful fuzz guitar solo. Harry Lookofsky, by the way, also recorded interesting jazz discs and provided backing for doo-wop groups under the name Hash Brown and His Orchestra. John Abbott was involved in some of these as well.
Peter Schekeryk passed away on October 26, 2010.
Tom wrote to me and also commented below, I’ve edited them together for clarity:
I think I can help you with this, as I was in the group. The lead singer of the group was Mick Wexler. The only thing I can tell you about him is, he was from an area of Philadelphia called Mount Airy. I don’t think his real 1st name was Mick, because he thought he was (Mick) Jagger.
I believe he wrote both songs. Harry Lookofsky did produce them. The reason it got onto a major label so quick is: 1. Harry’s reputation. 2. Longhaired bands were few and far between back then. 3. It was sort of commercial.
I didn’t play on the record, you are correct there. We also had a blond haired drummer named Warren David Scherhorst, who was the 1st drummer of The Left Banke. No photos exist of Warren or Mick.
When Warren & I Joined The Magic Plants, the records were already done. There was no group, just Mick. But he had to put something together, because he needed to act as if there was a group.
So we got together and Mick planned a few shows. He booked us in Philly, at some movie houses that were owned by a relative of his, named Nate Milgram. I think it was called, The Milgram Theatres.
You’re right about John Abbott [playing bass on the Magic Plants 45]. Hugh McCracken didn’t play guitar on The Magic Plants recordings. I remember seeing Mick Wexler playing guitar, he was actually a pretty good guitar player.
Peter Schekeryk was Harry’s talent scout, and I think he brought Mick to Harry. Harry Lookofsky was always on the lookout for talent to record so he could make some dough. Nothing wrong with that, right? So one day Peter took Warren and I up to meet Harry. But, I can’t recall how I met Mick or Michael. Probably at the studio. Or maybe in Greenwich Village.
Back then, we just wanted to be in a band. It was pretty sick, but we all had long hair and wanted to be like The Stones or Beatles. I think I just turned 16. I was a good singer because I’d been in doo-wop groups in Brooklyn for a few years. So the new culture was pulling us in. We were learning how to live our lives, we didn’t know what we wanted to be, but we knew what we didn’t want to be, Old fashioned greasers. Those bands were speaking our language.
By the way, I was responsible for putting together the elements and members of The Left Banke. I met all of the members separately and introduced all of them to each other. I lost power in the group after “Walk Away Renee” became a hit. The money started to come in, and Michael Brown (then Lookofsky) and his father Harry made a power play to keep only the lead singer Steve Martin-Caro and fire the rest of us. Well it didn’t work. But it did destroy the trust and comradery we had. -Tom Finn
This site is a work in progress on 1960s garage rock bands. All entries can be updated, corrected and expanded. If you have information on a band featured here, please let me know and I will update the site and credit you accordingly.
I am dedicated to making this site a center for research about '60s music scenes. Please consider donating archival materials such as photos, records, news clippings, scrapbooks or other material from the '60s. Please contact me at rchrisbishop@gmail.com if you can loan or donate original materials
I lived in Astoria, New York, in the borough of Queens for three years beginning in 2003. In the mid-60s Astoria was also home to the Primates.
The Primates waxed two 45s for the Marko label (“The Long Island Sound”), owned by Jack Hansen who is credited with production. His son Mark Hansen was bassist for the Poor Souls. Rick Grande, guitarist for the Poor Souls writes that Mark “joined the Poor Souls and would come to Astoria on weekends for rehearsals. Around that time, Barry joined The Primates and Mark got to know Barry. Mark told his Dad about The Primates and not long after, they landed the recording contract with Marco Records.”
At some point the Primates became the People of Thee with some of the same members. Joe Ferdinando eventually formed a group called Pier 86 with Ralph Raiola. Joe said, “Panthers, Primates, & People of Thee [were] basically the same group. Pier 86 [was a] totally diferent group of guys except for me. Pier 86 made an album and then women split us up.” John Demetrious had a later group called Jericho with a 45 on MCA.
