From left: David Moore, Don Willin, Carl Erwin and Joe Boyland
Here’s a record I don’t own myself, but after writing about the Marke 5, I heard from a member of another band from Fayetteville, the Symbols.
The Symbols released this one 45. The A-side is the Beatlesesque “Can I See You Tonight?” with an unusual guitar solo. Less restrained is the excellent flip “Give Me Time,” full of energy and originality, and written by David Moore and Joe Boyland.
Jerry Miller put me in touch with his brother George, who was the second lead singer of the group, joining right after the 45 was recorded. Prior to the Symbols, George was in the Taxmen, a rival band to the Marke 5 at Seventy First High School in Fayetteville.
George Miller wrote to me about the Symbols:
David Moore played lead, Don Willin bass, Joe Boyland (he was a preacher) rhythm, Carl Erwin drums.
Don Willin was a McCartney freak at the time and copied his style. Willin played a big red Gibson hollow body Bass, like Peter Tork of the Monkees. Moore and Boyland wrote their songs.
Johnny Betz did the original vocals of “Can I See You Tonight.” I have no idea why, but after the record was cut and got dist. going, Betts and the drummer quit. Carl Irwin, from Pine Forest H.S. and myself from 71st, moved into those to places and the Symbols really clicked. I sounded exactly like him doing that song so we did it all the time and I got the credit for making it a hit.
We did “Words” by the Bee Gees then; and the crowd always went crazy. We played all over N.C. The Symbols were the first to use strobe and stage lighting. Very limited at the time, but effective. We had that stage magic. I won’t ever forget the fun and work it took to be on the road in H.S.
Jimmy Capps Productions was in Raleigh, N.C. Capps produced “Can I See You Tonight” 600 copies (at total $625.00). We had a recording offer from ‘Colgems’ (Columbia/Gem) in California, four songs all original, and I was too young to go on tour without an adult chaperone. So I got in trouble and headed off to Viet Nam with Mike and Jim, who were the other getter-in-troubles …..and we got to be War Heroes n’stuff and be cool around Fayyette-Nam….
By the way it is Bradley Moffet, lead guitar – Marke 5, that was working at Edwards Music not Donnie Wofford. Wofford is retired from the Army as an E-7, and runs some convenience stores in Hope Mills.
The Taxmen: Bobby Williams – Lead, Jay Shepherd – Rhythm, Bob Holmes – Bass, George Miller – Vocals, Bill Palmer – Drummer # 1, ? – Drummer #2. Anyone know where Bob Holmes and John Holmes might be? Old Jr. High School band “The Barons” the best song we did was “Shapes” by ‘The Yardbirds’… Barons was ahead of their time.
George Miller was lead vocals in the Symbols in 1967.
I’m trying to get Can I See You Tonight, no luck yet. Lead singer of Symbols was George Miller 1967.
George Miller
E-mail Address(es):
shemsheli@cfl.rr.com
George Miller sadly has passed away also around 2009. I saw him and he sang with Ed Truman, David Moore, Brad Muffett, and Rick Lewis, as they played at our 71st High School Reunion, at Verderey Pates Farm.
I just found out that George Miller died from cancer in Fayetteville, Cape Fear Hospital in May of 2010. ! Gone too soon !!
Can I See You Tonight came out in 1965 and Johnny Betz was the lead vocalist. Those were the best days of my life. I have both songs on cd.
How wonderful it is to read of this band. I am a 71st graduate of 66 and it was a great band and some great guys.
Chas, thanks for posting Can I See You Tonight. I love that song. Your website is great.
Jerry Miller
that was one cool band, everybody had a band in every neighborhood, the symbols were really entertaining. i can remember seeing them at fort bragg teen club and at putt putt on raeford road. this is with betts and jackson, i think my favorite songs they did was road runner and can i see you tonite.
…. anyone that knows or knew anyone connected with the ‘Symbols’, Fayetteville, N.C. can contact me at…
George Miller
Orlando, Fla.
gmiller125@cfl.rr.com
…..would really like to hear from anyone….
Thanks, George
hey if anyone knows where george miller is these days email me at eparadiddle@embarqmail.com havent seen or heard of him since the band days
In my attempts to contact other members of the Symbols.., I was informed by a prominent member of the band back then that there is no memory of me ever having been lead vocals for the Symbols….
…I wonder if I ever really lived in Fayetteville.., or if I really went to 71ST…. OH WELL…… maybe I am not even George Miller either…
all the above recollections I have posted..!!!! NEVER MIND!!!!!
i remember seeing them at putt putt and fort bragg teen club. they were real showmen.
George:
My name is Bill Boyland, brother of Joe, who played in the Symbols. I remember you taking Johnny’s place when he left, and seeing you play in some of the clubs. That was such a great time back then, wish I could have them back.
You can reach me at this address. Hope you’re doing well. I still live in Fayetteville, in the same house that the band use to practice in.
Take care.
Hi Bill,
My mom was a friend of Joe’s in high school. Any chance you might have any Symbols memorabilia or a recording of one of their songs? Mom and I were talking about Joe tonight and he meant a lot to her at a difficult time in her life. Would love to connect with you!
Sincerely,
Cydney English
(my mom is Sidney Clark from Bluefield/Clarkton)
Greetings to all! I am Johnny Betz, the origional singer for the symbols. Unfortunately, this email is after the loss of Joe Boyland, my beatles mentor. I was devastated to learn that Joe passed before we could get together. We spoke on the phone in 2005 and discussed getting together soon. I went back to school to be an RN and thought we would get together after I graduated, which is May 20,2009. I know Virginia would have been proud. Joe and I spoke of that. I was going to invite joe to my graduation. I am heartbroken to say the least. Joe will be in my heart forever, as will Virginia, Billy and John Holdren. My best to the other members of the band;those that were there with me and those who came later. It was a wonderful time of my youth.I had to follow my parents back to Philadelphia after my dad retired from the army, and I continued to play to this day. I can thank Joe for that. I also thank Virginia, Billy, and John for being like a family to me when I lived with them. With saddness…Johnny
Billy You don’t know how heartbroken I am. I feel like I did when John Lennon was murdered. It keeps getting worse. I don’t know if you knew that Joe and I spoke and I had hopes of seeing you guys again. I am graduating my RN this may and I was hoping that joe would be there to represent your mom (who was a major influence in my life-I have always missed you all so). When I went to Pennsylvania, I was lost and didn’t have the maturity to keep in touch because I felt I wasn’t wanted. But that is on me not anyone else. You and your brother and mother were to carry me through some sad periods in my life. I remember all of you fondly and will forever carry you with me. I hope to see you someday in the future. I drive to my home in Florida every now and then. Perhaps I could stop in and say hello one of my trips. I know where you are and I’m happy you are still there. Your home is a landmark to me. I remember playing football in the back yard and how I had no ability to control my immaturity at losing. I remember your big smile. I remember your brother guiding me along my lost way. I remember your beautiful mother sitting in the front seat of the car while Joe drove us either to promote the record or to retreats. I have always missed you all. When John Lennon was murdered, Joe was the first person I called.
And now I call out to you, my childhood brother. I hope you are alright.
All the best
Johnny Betz
Johnney Bettz, Thanks for the input, it was really great to set up some commo with you.When you wrote about Joe, my heart sank. David, Joe, Don, Carl and yourself were strong influences for my involvement with music back then.
I watched the original Symbols every chance I could, always thinking I would want to be in that band as vocals. Never thought that it would happen, best days of my life; Taxmen then the Symbols. I recall after the Taxmen broke up (me appendicitis) ruined a long list of bookings we had at the time. The band visited in the hospital after my surgery and told me the Taxmen were finished. My spirits hit the floor, I thought I had nothing to look forward to after the surgery; music was all I had at the time. Bob Holmes (Bass Taxmen)caught me in the hallway when school restarted that fall and told me that Don had spoke with the original members and wanted me to audition. I never thought I would make the grade. Bettz was a hard act to follow.., some how I squeaked through and became a ‘Symbol’! Great times and great friends. I’ll never forget.
The world of Music lost a really great man when Joe departed. Still can’t get it off my mind. To all who were and became ‘Symbol-ized’ thanks for the awesome memories. Joe Boyland R.I.P.
gmiller125@cfl.rr.com
See what you did joe? Even on the small scale you had influence. I believe you know the contacts created since you’ve been gone. Thank you for my new friends. There are many of us from your youth that are heartbroken by your passing. That’s how far back your influence goes; beyond those trivial bands you had to deal with later on. You were a leader early on. You were our own J.L.. We learned from you. Here we are 40 years later and you are still with us. Good job Joe! Heartbroken and crying, Johnny
Thanks to everyone who has offered their sentiments and stories about Joe. His brother Bill and I formed a tight three musketeers as cousin/brothers. We’re both missing him so much, yet enjoying the heck out of each other at a new level. Johnny, you were so very right when you said that Joe’s passing connected a lot of us together. I’ve missed you very much over the years. Always loved you and the company that we all kept with the band. It will be great to see you in Nashville and at the 40th Seventy-First High School Reunion in Fayetteville in a couple of weeks. Hopefully David (Moore) will get to come and do the jam with you, George, Muffett and the others. What a great tribute to Joe and the music pleasure that he brought with you, David, Don, Randall, Carl, George and those that followed. God bless you Joe. Wish you were here. Love, John
hey john i hope we did joe a good show this past saturday at the reunion. im just comin down from the high i got from playing with some of my teenage idols. ed
Ed Truman has posted video clips from the Symbols/Marke 5 reunion from June 13:
I Saw Her Standing There
Gloria
Twist and Shout
As Tears Go By
The band featured Brad Muffett and Ed Truman from the Marke Five, Johnny Betz, George Miller and David Moore from the Symbols and Ricky Lewis of Fayetteville on bass.
Today is a very sad day learning of the passing of Joe. I read an article on Joe where it mentioned he knew he was just an average musician and having played bass with the band, I can truely say there was nothing average about Joe Boyland. One thing is for certain, The Beatles sound brought five guys together, early teens, Joe, Don, David, Randall and Johnny (The Symbols). Joe was the leader of the band and practice was the daily schedule. What we learned from Joe was striving towards perfection as we did in our music. I do not know how many battle of bands we won but it was several. You had five guys that really knew nothing of music much less playing it but Joe got us there and in time we had our own flavor of music. Often wonder where things might have gone had we taken that recording contract in California. It would be nice to go back to 1964 because Joe those were the best years of my life. Best I can recall, we were together for around 3 1/2 years that is me, you and David. We saw three different drummers, Randall, Karl and Pete. I left the band in 67′, graduated from high school, joined the Navy and got the draw for Nam. Got out of the Navy in 69′ and joined the group, The Malibous and the day I auditioned for them an old friend was there auditioning to, Pete the drummer from the Symbols. I stayed with them til 1984-85. One of the most rememberable experiences with the Symbols was when we backed up the Drifters. As I am closing, once again I would like to thank you Joe for the best years of my life.
I did play bass for the Symbols but recalling back, I did play a gibson hollow body bass but it was sunburst in color. Having thought hard on the band, I cannot remember George Miller. As for not knowing why the single was as you said discontinued, Joe took care of the business end, paid for it all and we did not have the money for more copies. As for George Miller stating he sang it alot and made it the hit just does not sit well with me at all. The original Symbols on the record made it the hit as did the DJ’S and mostly the fans that called in to the radio stations and requested playing it over the air. We thought that it might make number 1 but a song came out called They’re Coming to take me Away went straight to the top of the charts and our 45 did not recover from that. It was Jonny Betz who sang it and made it what it was, vocally. I had the pleasure working with another band and fronted the Ides of March, Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show and backed up several top groups like Sam and Dave and others. Got to work on the same stage as the Five Satins. Have alot of memories. I retired from the band scene in 1985. I know have my own recording studio in my home and I have record two cds of songs I love but not for sale. I played all the instruments on the cds and programmed most of the precussion (drums). I played lead guitar, rhythmn guitar, bass guitar, several different keyboards along with adding other precussion. It is my greatest work to date. Did this in 97-98. It was mentioned that I copied Paul McCartney of the Beatles and throught the years, I was told that my bass play sounded like his, that I reminded people of him and that is a compliment I hold dear. The sad thing is, I was not gifted with his voice. As far as a singer, well a frog on a lily pad would sound better. In closing I would like to say thanks to the fans of the Symbols who called in request to hear the songs on the 45 and making our dreams come true, a reality. Thank you
hows is going don, im ed from the marke 5. like to hear some of the stuff you recorded. send me some over email. where you live at these days. the last time i saw you i think you had just gotten out of the navy.
Hey it’s Carl Erwin the drummer who took Johnny Betz Place. Wow what shoes to follow.
I have so many memories of us the Symbols playing together and practicing at the house. One of the most eventful show’s I remember was at the WYMCA when over a 1000 people came to see us and many had to be turned away. We were one of the first to use a strobe light in Fayetteville and we had dry ice smoking over the stage. I jumped from some part of the stage and fell through and at the end David broke his guitar through my Bass drum. Wow did everyone go crazy.
I went on to play for a total of 19 years. Playing for opening acts of all the 50’s groups and traveling the country. I played with David Butler and the News, Huckleberrymudflap, Newcastle Trio and the Backstreet Journal. Playing in front of Queen, Kiss, Elvis Costello, ZZ top, Kris Kristoferson, Rita Coolidge and many more
Joe was very special and I saw him at his house about 10 years ago going through Nashville. We missed each other several times but had started emailing and were going to meet between Nashville and Huntsville Al. where I live now. I had emailed him and didn’t get an answer. My answer came when my father sent me the clipping from the Fayetteville observer. I have thought of him daily and the influence he had in my life. I hope to hear from anyone and look forward to emails from Don and David and all that loved the Symbols. my email is cerwin16@comcast.net
dont you mean you took randall jacksons place on drums?
George was my ex Father in law.His daughter just called to tell George had died today at Cape Fear, From a Long bout with Cancer. Any question I will put anyone of you guys in touch with his family even his brother Jerry. Arrangements are being made now watch the Fayetteville news papers orbits for detail. Thank you all for remember him. Marty
I am George’s brother Jerry Miller. George died from cancer Friday May 7. George loved music and the magic of the 1960s especially. I made a video about him and it’s on You Tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5QBL_3hjYM
I met some of his fellow band members last year and was really impressed how nice and professional they are. I can see why George wanted to be around you guys and have fun making music and driving the girls wild.
His funeral and viewing are at Rogers and Breece Funeral Home in Fayetteville at 500 Ramsey St. Viewing 6-8 pm May 11, Funeral May 12 11am.
(Thanks Mary)
Take care and keep on playing,
Jerry Miller
I was and am sorry for the hearing of Joe’s passing on in his next life. I really am very sorry. I have tried to talk with David Moore but he never answers emails. Johnny and I are in contact with each other as Carl Erwin and I are also. I almost joined Joe on Sept. 5, 2009 suffing a massive heart attack but after a stent and two major surgeries (Bypass graft on 2 large aneurisms) I am still kicking. I also had a quadruple bypass in 2001. I am now you might say feeling bionic. How are things with you and yours? Hope Life is well and hope to hear from you. Have a great day.
Donald D Willin
Hi Don, Hope you are well and hope this mail finds you.Found this site just acouple of days ago.It’s nice to read about the band although I did’nt know anyone but you and Jackson. I remember going to your house when you first started playing your bass. I beleved you lived in a splitlevel house and you practice in the basement or garage,any way hope you get this short letter but sure would like to here from you. I lost all my red hair to old father time. friend gary
Don, Thanks for the kind words. I completely forgot until I read your post that I did replace Carl Erwin in the band when he relocated after graduating from Pine Forest in ’68 to Panama City. I wasn’t old enough to drive and came over after working with Junior Powell and the Opus 5. I’ll never forget when you returned from your Navy tour, traveling in the Pontiac Safari wagon to Myrtle Beach. The Malibous from Ft Payne are unbelieveable memories and we shared the Bowery stage made famous by Alabama following in our footsteps. Most importantly, I’m very saddened to hear about Joe Boylan. I remember never missing a Symbols performance when they played at the Y on Ft Bragg road. The material, harmonies, your pounding bass, and Carl hitting two crash cymbals at the same time, those were pretty unique techniques, along with the outfits, made the band’s signature show. I remember Joe looked forward to playing ball after rehearsing, he was full of energy and life. He was a taskmaster band leader and a huge influence on my early musical career.
I came across this site and posts while doing research on this group. I acquired one of the scarce few copies of their 45 recently and wanted to see more. I have it listed for sale on Ebay (7-4-15) for those who might have been interested in finding a copy. It was fun reading about the history.
I’m sad to report that Joe Boyland of the Symbols passed away on March 18. Thanks to Craig D. for sending the clip below.